Infra Red Heating

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I have a profound distrust of companies that use pseudoscience to state half truths and downright lies.

There is no way that the laws of physics would enable a 600 watt 'infra-red' heater to provide the equivalent of a 2000 watt radiant heater - which is also infra-red.

I don't understand how any electric heating device can be as economical as a gas heater, let alone 60% cheaper.

I realise that not all Spanish homes are cave houses but to eliminate convection currents (which is incidentally IMPOSSIBLE with ANY heat source) would lead to stagnant damp air in any house and far worse in a cave.
Air circulation is vital to good health and especially for those with breathing problems so even if these claims were even partially true then by definition, these heaters would be unhealthy.

It's quite likely that warm walls would lead to less condensation on those walls that are heated (assuming that a 600 watt heater could heat a whole wall, which it couldn't) but the moisture would still be in the air (warm air holds a lot more moisture than cold)
At some point that warm air will have to contact a cold surface which will then drip condensation - I assume that this company is not suggesting that every inch of every wall is covered with these devices.

To be fair, I doubt that these heaters are any worse or any better than any other electric heater - ALL of which are infra-red
I can also see how they might be space saving and non-obtrusive.
Not at all sure how a hanging ball some distance from a 'high ceiling' will heat anything apart from the air around it.

Have a look at this, Looks interesting.

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Peter Goss wrote:Have a look at this, Looks interesting.

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It's interesting but mostly because it highlights the misunderstandings that some people (including this article) have about what infrared is.

Electromagnetic radiation can range from at one extreme, hard Gamma rays (basically nuclear radiation) all the way through X-rays, light rays, radio waves and finally infra-red.

ALL electromagnetic radiation generates heat as one of its properties.

In theory, infra red is about as close to pure heat as you'll get but it still radiates no matter what the source of radiation might be.
Black heaters (those that don't glow) are simply operating at the lowest frequency that can still be called infra-red.
In short, ALL heaters are infra-red because that is what heat is.

Now if I recall my physics lessons properly (more than half a century ago) heat can propagate via radiation, conduction or convection. Usually a combination of all three. Even a convection heater radiates AND conducts some heat.

The real point is that just about every electric heater, apart from microwaves and heat pumps, generate heat by passing a current through a resistive element. Input 600 watts and ignoring losses, the maximum heat that can be output is 600 watts. This is not and never will be equivalent to a 2000 watt heater of any kind.

It's dishonest to claim that any electric heater is more efficient than any other simply because with EVERY type of heater, ALL the heat generated is contained within the room or house. There's no wasted heat disappearing up a flue or chimney.
So it's probably true to say that electric heating is generally more efficient than gas but gas is a lot less expensive to begin with.

Ecologically gas has to be more efficient than electricity because gas power stations generate electricity by burning gas to generate steam which then drives turbines. Every stage of the operation incurs substantial energy losses, including the final transmission of electrity to your home (think how many kilometres of transmission cable are heating the outside world - it has to be less expensive to burn the gas yourself.

Well put there Englishman, I have known a few people buy these, and other electric heating, and they have been sorely disappointed. Unfortunately, as you say, they bamboozle people with distorted figures. I have run my portable gas heaters for 8 years now and they are warm and cheap to run with no significant problems. They do have safety cutoffs in case of lack of oxygen, mind you I wouldn't go to sleep with one on in a closed room. My wood burner is marvellous too, but only used sparingly as wood is very expensive. I also use a small electric fan heater in the bathroom, just for 5-10 mins. A fair mix of heating to suit my needs and pocket.

if you are intrested i have fitted econo heat rads for a lot of my customer they only take 400 watts to run ,m you can add timers and stats to them , all my customers are very happy with them , if you want to know any more info let me know

Arsenal wrote:if you are intrested i have fitted econo heat rads for a lot of my customer they only take 400 watts to run ,m you can add timers and stats to them , all my customers are very happy with them , if you want to know any more info let me know

I wasn't knocking low wattage heaters. If that is what a customer wants or needs then no problem.
It's the way that they are advertised that is misleading and the claims are often simply untrue.
So long as the advertising makes it clear that these units are intended for background or small area heating then that is fair and reasonable.

My problem is phrases like "they only take 400 watts" - implying that they are a cheap source of heat.
They only take 400 watts because they only give 400 watts of heat = 4 light bulbs.
That 400 watts is 400 watts per hour continuous - there seems very little point in fitting a thermostat to a heater that is designed to be on continuously because a single unit will never deliver enough heat to warm an average house.

An 800 watt heater will use exactly the same amount of power and deliver exactly the same amount of heat if it is on for half an hour.
Even a 6000 watt heater will likely only consume 400 watts if you fit a thermostat to set it to turn off at just above freezing.

I think I made this point to our friend who is also one of the forum group member when we were on the old cave forum they lived in Galera, this is the same thing Iberdrola was saying about same radiators they were selling that they would save energy, the radiators were expensive and the only thing I could see was that they were fitted with thermostats, Our friends did not take my advice and later they told me their bills were even bigger.


Since 1KW-H (kilowatt-hour) = 1000 Watt-Hours =3413 BTU
Then 1 watt-Hr = 3413 BTU divided by 1000 = 3.413 BTU
So... bottom line is 1 watt-hour is equal to 3.413 BTU
Note: For Reference: 1 BTU is the amount of energy required to raise (or lower) 1 (one) pound of water 1 (one) degree Fahrenheit.