Advice on Cave Life

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Try and make a few trips over so you can check out various areas and find one that appeals to you. Being a non-driver you might want to look at bigger towns with supermarkets and a hospital etc otherwise you'll be constantly relying on someone else to chauffeur you about.

Renting for a short period is a good idea too, at least that way you'll have a base here whilst you search for your ideal town.

I Second what Twisted says. Good advice. Have you looked into the possibility of renting your house out?

Well I second what Dave says about renting your house out. Sure it can be a bit of a pain at times, but it will give you a constant and regular income (on top of whatever else you have), plus, should Spain not be quite how you envisaged you'll always have somewhere you can fall back on. You should be able to achieve sufficient rental income from your UK property to pay for a rental place here and give you some play money too.

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All advice given is very good.Renting first is definatly the best bet.Get to know the area,you can always change your property but you can't change the area.I would certainly consider retaining a property in the UK,maybe downsize,yes the rent from the UK would give you a reliable income.

Hi,
I started out renting a cave for a 6 month trial in the sunny town of Baza, I had always fancied living in a cave so that was my way of moving forward with it. It is a small town with all the facilities i needed. I arranged my rental with the owner over the internet from UK and took up residence the october before last. There was nothing wrong with the cave, it had all mod cons and even had a swimming pool in the grounds, it was within easy walking distance of all the facilities the town had to offer. I had a very pleasant time there and enjoyed myself thoroughly. Although i did discover from a trial rental that despite my idealism of cave living it wasnt for me, I have many friends who live in caves and enjoy them for their many benefits, so it was not a one off experience of one single cave, it was just a case that i prefered a convential house.
I would certainly recommend renting first for a period of months to see if it is for you. Use the time to look around to make sure the area you have chosen is definately the area you want to settle in. It will also give you the chance to explore lots of different cave properties on offer and choose the right one to suit your situation. It also would give you the chance to make friends and learn lots of aspects about the area that you wouldnt pick up on a couple of weeks holiday.
I loved the area I chose and didnt bother to return to UK, am still here in Baza, life is good and the weather suits. all be it in a house in the town.

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A belated welcome, and some very good tips, I have lived in a cave for around four years and it has met and surpassed all my expectations. There is such a variety of locations and cave houses to choose from you will be spoilt for choice.

For sure one needs to take of those rose coloured glasses, as there can be many pitfalls and not believe all you hear,research and find out for yourself and let common sense prevail. All of the things that one would do and take into consideration prior to buying in the UK should apply here, even if the sun is out and the sky is blue.

As caves come in all sort of conditions and shapes and sizes, including some with no services, some needing total renovation and some all singing and all dancing , with all mod cons inc pool. Some in the middle of no where , others in the middle of a town , it would help to have a little idea of what type of cave experience you were looking for. Galera is a nice town and I am sure those living there, will be along soon, to tell you about this lovely village.


Good luck and cave hunting for sure is fun and exciting. xx

Again all the advice given is good.
Please Please when you go cave hunting with an agent take somebody with you who has lived here,in a cave,for a while.Don't believe that the electric is no problem,it will be easily connected,don't believe the water is only 100mtrs away and you can connect the day after you buy the cave.Consider all aspects,a south facing cave will always be better than a north facing one,avoid caves with roads,other cave or public rights of way overhead.
There are a lot of things to think about,don't get taken in by overblown agents claims,remember they earn their living by selling property.

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Hi Diane,
Let me make it clear from the start, I have no axe to grind over cave living, i have many friends who own and live in caves and have a comfortable life style being cave dwellers. Most are members of this forum. I enjoy visiting them, staying in their properties from time to time and socialising in them. Any aspects that i might express regarding my experience of cave living should be taken as how it suited MY OWN situation and life style not as a general situation for all. Also why I decided not to live in a cave.
As santamaria pointed out caves come in all shapes and sizes, locations and conditions, pretty much like houses. They have been used in Spain for generations to work, live and raise families in. The main means of construction seems generally to dig into a hill and form caverns. From there a structure similar to half a house is constructed on the front, this is not always the case but is certainly true in the most part. The structure on the front is usually a shell for the wet areas, kitchen bathroom toilets etc. The natural enemy of caves is water. You can find lots of information on this sort of stuff on line, research is definitely the key to moving forward.
For me i guess one of the things was before coming here i did have some romantic notion of living in a cave being something out of the ordinary, like in a old water mill, light house etc, this might apply in UK, but out here the cave house is just as popular and normal as the three bed semi in uk. In fact from my own contacts the new generations of Spanish consider them old fashioned and want/prefer modern well appointed apartments in town. I guess that put pay to any romantic notion of living in a cave.
I also found due to their construction (again generally speaking) that whilst the front built section could be naturally light and bright the deeper depth were dark and required electric illumination during both day and night occupation. This may not be an issue for most or even some, but for me it had to be a consideration as generating unnecessary electric bill during daylight hours does not suit my finances. I also have a medical condition that requires plenty of sunshine in my life, which was one of the main reasons for me moving out here in the first place.
Caves it would seem unlike houses have some specific requirements, well actually thats not quite true as houses have specific requirements too, but caves have different requirements to houses. As you will discover during your research they are living breathing things, they require good ventilation, condensation is not good. From what those that own and live in cave say, they seem to require constant ongoing maintenance, more so than houses, while this might not be a big job, never the less it is required, they require specific materials, you can’t just slap a load of modern paint on the walls it stops it from breathing, so requires more natural solutions.
Now, I know there will be those that will argue my next point, but you asked me my reasons, and one of the points i considered was structural integrity. Whilst it is not regular and if well maintained not a common occurrence it never the less happens that parts of some caves suffer from structural failure. Over the last two years i personally know of 6 cave’s that have suffered from some form of structural failure, thankfully without any form of injury befalling the owners. In most such cases it is a couple of hundredweight of mud falling from the ceiling and forming a pile on the floor. In one case a room resulting in being completely open to daylight and the night sky.
2 of these have been due to natural water ingress, three years ago there was a really bad winter which caused lots of problems, the two i refer to were occupied caves but as you travel around you will see many cave’s that have been unoccupied and suffered from partial collapse. 2 from water ingress created by neighbours changing their own structures and therefore changing the way the water flows from the land. The final 2 due to poor maintenance or use of incorrect materials. Whilst this may only be a small number compared to the actual number of caves there are in this area, in two years i have not heard of any roofs blowing off or collapsing on houses.
This may paint a gloomy picture, however its not meant to, i have only pointed out as requested MY OWN considerations for staying in Spain and should it be cave or man made brick structure. Every person is different and will have different values, needs and considerations. there are many types of cave, there are never two the same, some are big some small, They generally are on the outskirts of towns or completely out of town and benefit from stunning views, they generally benefit from a constant temperature, so warmer than houses in the winter cooler than houses in the summer. The best nights sleep i have had in years were in the cave bedrooms of the cave i rented. When near more built up areas they are quiet, you don’t hear outside noise, traffic, neighbours etc like you do in houses.
I should also point out that my decision to move into a town house were not only based on the which is better cave or house argument, there were other social factors that effected my decision and effected my choice, yours of course will be very specific to your own personal situation.
I hope this helps and im sure others will be happy to express their own experiences of the pro’s and cons of cave dwelling, as in all walks of life whatever you choose to do, it is not all about the structure you choose to abide it, the area and the people make life complete.
james

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Diane,
De Nada, re: your previous post on requirements, you should have no problem finding a place with such facilities. As Ian pointed out, make sure services are preferaby connected, or definately in place. Others will tell you this is often not the case and often expensive. Telephone and Internet can be a challenge, Internet for fast connection can be much more expensive than uk, there are not so many deals to be had. slower connections are available at more moderate costs and of course there is always the dongle avenue but again can be expensive for what you get.
As im sure you are aware, regardless of if you have spent time here or not, things are quite different when you start trying to sort out officialdom, connecting stuff and getting licences registration etc.

Hi and welcome to the forum!
Most cave dwellers love their caves, buts its definitely a good idea to rent first - our experience gave us a good idea of what we didn´t want! Lots of caves have a walled patio outside which should suit the dogs - provided there´s good shade for them.
The climate is pretty extreme here - it´s worth experiencing the intensly hot, dry summers and distinctly chilly winter nights (tho the often sunny winter days are lovely) to make sure you´re okay with the weather! Caves are great from that point of view - a summer´s afternoon siesta in the cool of the cave is great. If you´re looking at houses, check that they are insulated etc, or you´ll risk freezing in winter - or spending a fortune on heating - and frying in summer- unless you don´t mind and can afford to run aircon.
Re. not being a driver - if you don´t want to live in Baza or Huescar then you might be best to go for one of the larger villages eg. Galera, Castilléjar etc. Then you´ve got banks, butchers, furniture shops, weekly market etc etc on your doorstep (and bars!). And the larger villages tend to have a bus service to Huescar / Baza which is handy. I live without a car in Los Olivos, where there is one bar and small shop, and it´s 30 minutes to walk to Castilléjar or a few minutes cycle. There´s a bus stop nearby to get to Baza. Mostly it´s fine and I´m happy to be car-less, but during the hot summers daytime walking is a bit of an effort! (I´ve borrowed my sister´s car while she´s in the UK for the summer and I´m really appreciating it). Wouldn´t be a problem at all if I was living in Castilléjar. You also find that once you get to know people they´ll often stop to give you a lift on the road.
Are you learning the language? - it really helps!
Good luck with your plans and keep us informed!

midnightprowler wrote
'I also found due to their construction (again generally speaking) that whilst the front built section could be naturally light and bright the deeper depth were dark and required electric illumination during both day and night occupation. This may not be an issue for most or even some, but for me it had to be a consideration as generating unnecessary electric bill during daylight hours does not suit my finances.'
From my experiencee of house living compared to cave living if you are on a budget then 'go cave' you will spend more on heating and cooling in a house ,plus the rates bill will be higher, plus the cost to rent/purchase will be higher.
A lot of the strucure problems spoken about are have been in caves that have fallen foul of other persons faulty work or lack of correct maintenance. The comment about seeing dissused caves in a poor state is strange, as how many houses in town and in the campo do you see virtually falling down.
The daylight and humidity/condensation issues are usually solved by having the bathroom and kitchen towards the front of the cave and a number of caves have an outbuild to the front which houses the lounge.
Caves are 'the' economical place to live, gthey are usually the barrios where the poor have lived and where thriving Gitano communities still thrive till this day.
Chapter one of advert for living on the Altiplano finished.
PS why not condsider the oft missed Culllar if you wish a town with excellent bus routes and good local facilities. Good Luck!

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I agree with every word of Ian Sharp's last post, don't believe all the spiel you are given, especially regarding water & electricity connection.

However, don't be put off by a place that has none or no hope of getting connected to mains power as you can purchase an entire (basic'ish) solar power system that will be very functional for around 1000Euros. The benefit of this is ZERO electricity bills, EVER! (Take a look at one of the solar & wind threads on this site).

ALWAYS go for a South facing cave, I've been in East, West & North face one's and almost 100% of the time there is a damp issue somewhere in the cave. Give your agent instructions, "Only South Facers please". Don't even waste your precious time going to see that "stunning vista North facer".

When you do come over to start your viewings it is definitely advisable to take someone that has experienced a variety of caves with you. Someone totally unbiased will cut to the chase when it comes to "creative descriptions" of properties and tell you how it is (as long as they do actually know what their talking about!). If you can find someone who has building experience all the more better.

One thing you will find, and may or may not like is that, by living in a very small town you might be expected to join a "Little Britain". Now this may be exactly what you're after, but being in a much larger town reduces the risk of getting drawn into that environment. But each to their own, some people need/want/like that life, choose wisely.

So what advice if it has no water?
The total package has to be looked at , what might suit some, might not be acceptable for others.
The utmost best advice has to be rent for at least 6 months, get to know people, who is connected to who, who works/associates with you, who could have a hidden agenda, what is the correct price to pay for work/services etc, and never pay upfront for work not even deposit 'to secure a starting date' a competent tradesman will have credit facilities with his supplier and will have sufficient funds in reserve to even out cash flow problems.
The south facing cave would be preferred but when you look around you will see several caves that do not face south and they are occupied quite happily,
North facing caves in this area tend to be used for an agricultural/storage purpose. South facing will not automatically mean no damp problems as ventilation is a key to this problem, not direct heat.

Theres some very good advice coming out here. When we bought our cave nearly six years ago after renting a holiday cave in Galera. There was less 'experienced' online advice available but we used some common sense (some people leave this at the UK airports) We spoke to various cave dwellers, we made up a short list from what the estate agent had shown us. We then went back to look on our own at different times of the day and night. We decidided on the one we liked. we then went back to the estate agent and asked to have the keys for an evening. We went on our own and had a BBQ and stayed until the early hours of the morning.
We put an offer in, it was accepted straight away. So we asked for the keys again and moved some stuff in. Sort of marked our territory
Dont forget when buying a property, YOU are the customer THEY only make money by selling you a property.
Use your head and do plentyof research. Dont feel afraid to ask any questions especialy ones you feel are daft.

Never, Never, Never, arrange or pay anybody to carry out any work for you (sadly especially Brits) without referrals.

Allthough all this sounds a ballache, youll look back and say "Should have done it years ago"

Whilst it is true that a South facing cave will not 100% guarantee no-damp problems the pro's far outweigh a North facing one.

With regards to water, there's normally a farmer close by who will deliver a water tanker to you with around 8000 litres, for somewhere in the region of 40-50Euros which you can then store in easy to buy 1000L cubos.

All good advice above regarding getting building works done.

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Hopefully Bantams56 will give some good info about before and after and solar. He has a fabulous cave that has just been reformed from a ruin. He's also just had a solar system installed.