Property Market

As my wife and I have had a quick deterioration in our health, have now found a way to bring the price of our cave house right down from 295.00 to 199.000 Euros which we think will make it more attractive to a lot more of the public. Has anyone heard how the property market is going these days?

That's certainly a more realistic price! 295,000 euros for a cave even in the ' BOOM ' days was an awful lot of money. I still think 195,000 euros is a lot of money for a cave however nice it is when its a buyers market. I have seen 4 bedroom 2 bathroom caves with lovely outside space for 80,000 euros fully reformed and ready to move into. So i think if you are in a hurry Peter you may have to go lower yet

Its such a shame when people have to move and the housing market has dropped. Good for buyers, bad for the sellers. Good luck Peter.

We don’t have to sell, our cave has everything 199.000 Euros is a giveaway price we are positioned in among Spanish people who are big business owners in Baza, not that we knew or took that into account when we bought, we are also only 7 minutes from Baza town but it does not have what we now want to occasionally go out to dinner and a cabaret, in other words we want to be entertained. We want to move to Albir.

We also know the British make a big mistake “Big is beautiful” WOW I can buy a place with 4 hectares of land with place I can do up for 20.000 Euros sell it and make a lot of money. Or open a shop, this is not the area to come to make business that is why our property is a home, so you need a good pension i.e. money before you come here. If you are thinking of attack me just look at the English shops that have gone to the wall or easer the one that have not.

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Wow!! I didn't realise it was an attack Peter? I was sympathising with your plight. A little touchy aren't we? Sorry if i offended you but i don't care where the cave is situated, you would never in a million years sell a cave home for 295,000 euros ( cave hotel excepted ) At the end of the day it is still a cave. They are not worth as much as cortijo and at the moment there aren't any cortijo's selling at 295,000 euros. As i said 195,000 euros is a much more realistic price in this current economic climate.

As far as mentioning English shops going to the wall....what has that got to do with what we were discussing? I think most people here realise that it is difficult to set a business up in this area unless you are fluent in Spanish and are actually selling something that the Spanish want or need. As far as living on a pension here i think you can do this quite easily if you live like the Spanish. i.e Eating the cuts of meat that they eat and shopping for local, in season produce....even on a state UK pension. ( other members feel free to comment )

I think you are brave taking on cave people on their home turf but there is a truth in what you say. I don't think the problem is just confined to caves though. We all know that prices of rural properties have been inflated by overseas buyers. In the past many were abandoned or used as weekend or harvesting homes and had little cash value to Spanish who had had enough of poverty and wanted new homes with mains services. Buyers who bought when prices were low can afford to take less money and only lose "profit". People who bought whilst prices were high and spent a lot on modernising to their own tastes cannot because they have too much in the property. Perhaps we are seeing a readjustment in prices because something is only worth what a buyer will pay. This is a great shame for those who have invested a lot at what turned out to be the height of the market. Maybe the Spanish will fall back in love with their old properties like people did in the UK with small cottages and woodburners?

i cant believe anybody thinks they would get 195000 for a cave however grand or large not even in the boom time.
i have a 4 bed 2 bath cave large plot beautiful location i would be surprised if were to get 80000 for it currently.

Deleted

Unfortunately any cave house is only worth what someone is willing to pay these days. I was VERY lucky and bought mine well before the boom and it is my home so was never regarded as anything else, It was worth a lot of money a couple of years ago, but not now, still, I am not selling so is not a problem. My heart goes out to those who bought in the boom, I think it is now dawning that they paid well over the odds for what they got. OK if it's your home and you can afford to stay, but not if you can't. Two very well placed estate agent friends have said that those who bought in the last few years or so should aim at best to get their money back, taking into account the exchange rate now, and what it was when they bought. Otherwise they will have to sell at a loss. Otherwise hold on for a few years if you can. I wish everyone selling the best of luck.

I think youre being a bit unfair to Peter. If Peter believes hiscave is worth 500.000 euros, then surey thats up to him. thats what he values it, and what he wants for it, and if he gets it, then all well and good. Ive been to Peters cave and it is very, very nice. Weather its worth 50,000 euros or 250,000, I wouldn't know, but it is spectacular and does also have some very interesting 'additions' which Peter hasn't mentioned which could increase the value dramatically.

I agree with you, Dave, Peter's cave is really lovely and I'd like to wish him and Mia the very best of luck in selling it at a price they're happy with. x

I don't understand where i, or any of the above postings have been unfair to Peter? I merely stated that in this current economic climate its probably unrealistic to think you will sell a cave house for 295,000 euros. I also apologised to Peter in the above posting as i never meant to cause offence. However the price of your cave, car or whatever is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it at any given time. What you think your cave is worth is largely irrelevant if other people dont value it as highly as you. As you will not sell it!

Also if you read Peters opening thread he asks for opinions on the current housing market. If he didn't want other peoples opinions or thoughts on his price and the current housing market he perhaps shouldn't have asked?

Once again i wish him good luck with getting a sale at a price he is happy with.

The sale of properties in the area has dropped dramatically over the last 18 months. being a shop owner (still trading after 5 years) I have noticed that the market is still pretty good for selling to Dutch, french, and Belgium's,
I do think it will come back for the English buyers and sellers, but I dont think this will happen for at least another couple of years.
In the mean time, the person who is selling the cave, house, apartment, knows what it owes them, therefore they set the price accordingly. If it sells it sells if it dont it dont. There are many properties in Huescar and the surrounding area that are left empty by Brits who have returned to U.K, some have been like this for over two years, but who even knows if the estate agents are still advertising them.

I must be one of the rare folks who have been able to sell 3 houses in Spain
One in Culler, Los carriones and one in Los Olivos.

The thing is is to buy a cave to Live in!!!, dont think your going to make lots of money, No one is in the World at the moment.

We bought when it was 1.5 euros to the pound

so if i bought a property for £100,000 = 150.000 euro

and this year with the exchange rate being near enough equal you could sell for 100.000 euro and be no more worse off!!!

the fact is if you sold the property for 80.000 you would be loosing money like everyone in Europe!!!!

Anything for sale is only worth what someone will pay for it.


The main thing that no one seems to comprehend, is Life is so F+++ing short, and if youve had a chapter in Spain, and you want to start another chapter whether for heath reasons or not, then do it!!! dont spend the next 5/6 years trying to achieve the imposible, move on.

Weve moved folks that had put everything into their spanish coastal homes and have moved back with NOTHING!!! but they done it because they wanted to, and one couple live in a caravan!!! and they are happy.

Being Happy and heathy is where we all want to be, whether in a tent a cave house on mansion.or a boat!!!

Be kind to each other

Col

Hi Peter

I have to say and agree that you Home looks fantastic, and I really do mean that, and we were looking arround, it would be a contender, But the true value to buyers is what else is arround for simler money.

to all
Most of the Caves and houses are arround or below the 100,000 threshold
and if they are advertised at more, I can guarentee that if a cash buyer came along, they could push at getting the house at a knock down price
and I mean Cash buyers are rare so as a seller dont let that buyer get away, it could be months years before anyone else could come and look at it again.

Anyone looking out there, if you want to buy a home then go with your heart and Head, dont lose your dream.

If you want to buy investment, then offer 50% of the asking price, be heartless, and just keep offering on many lots of propertys because as a invester all they are are boxes, you wont be popular, but one will come up and that should be an investment, maybe not somwhere you want to live.

the above is for anywhere in the world, investment means buying cheaper that the current market, hoping that the investment will rise or youve got a true true bargain

Col x

bigcol wrote:

Being Happy and heathy is where we all want to be, whether in a tent a cave house on mansion.or a boat!!!

Who would want to live on a boat? Only a crazy man would want to do that!

I have been reading all the threads with interest and having been involved in the property market in the UK and here for the past 35 years, and her for four years, have never experienced a slump like this. Even in the early 90's it was dire but nothing to compare with here.
As previous posts state, it is difficult to put a price in a property, any property at the moment, they are only worth what people are prepared to pay.
Sadly it is a fact that local people rarely buy properties/caves, they inherit them from family. The occassional investor from Madrid, Barcelona will buy a holiday home. In the past 7/8 years the majority of purchasers have been from the UK, with some from France. In the past two years I have been getting increasing enquiries from Holland, Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Sweden. The last one I sold was to a Swedish client. Good news.
Advertising on international websites, such as Kyero etc is expensive but produces enquiries.
When I worked for Pepe and Sue in Baza, the higest price anyone paid for a cave was €180K, and that was special. There have possibly been a few that sold for more, but that was over three years ago.
What ever your opinion is about the value of your property you can not escape the fact that Spain economically, is in the sticky stuff, the rest of Europe including the UK is not doing much better. It really is going to take some time, if ever to get back to a situation we enjoyed 5 or 6 years ago.
I want to sell properties, l need to make a living and pay my social security and taxes BUT if you don't have to sell, WAIT, or be prepared to take low offers.
Fortunately I have a number of reaonably priced properties that, although difficult to find buyers, do sell.
Think about this we get 18-20% less in Euros to the Pound than we did 5 years ago. We are told property prices have dropped by a third. So if I bought my property for €150K (Inc Taxes etc) 5 years ago and the rate was 1.50, it cost me 100 sterling. Today to get my money back l need to get at least €121K if selling to someone from the UK and moving back home. That doesn´t take into account the third that property prices have dropped by.
I sympathise with Peters plight, and desire to sell. He has a nice place and if he or someone else can find the right person, they will buy it.
I wish him luck.

Devon.Dave wrote:

bigcol wrote:

Being Happy and heathy is where we all want to be, whether in a tent a cave house on mansion.or a boat!!!

Who would want to live on a boat? Only a crazy man would want to do that!

Our daughter lives on a house boat in Delft (Holland) it is a very nice home, while she is down here nursing us two, she is moving the boat two meters to make a bit more room for her neighbour to bring in a bit bigger house boat. For me as an engineer it is very interesting monitoring on Skype hours at a time i.e. first the bridge was stuck so problems getting the cranes in, the disconnecting the three services Elec. Water with heat tracing , Sewerage. The bilge pump alarm went off but we have everything under control. OK well stop boring you. Regards Peter. x

Devon.Dave wrote:

bigcol wrote:

Being Happy and heathy is where we all want to be, whether in a tent a cave house on mansion.or a boat!!!

Who would want to live on a boat? Only a crazy man would want to do that!

I dont know who would want to live on a boat either dave lol, they would have to be We must be crazy!!!
Col x

And none of us knew that.......?

Hi Dave, it is like a lot of people who speak about caves without knowing all the advantages, some of the Spanish are buying back caves. One Spaniard we know who owns a lorry haulage company in the area has built a large house on top of their cave, it is a show house fitted with everything his wife keeps it spotless BUT they all live in the cave all year round. Lots of you will know his brother and wife

Perhaps Peter didn't realise that Dave was being facetious and that Big Col and Sharon do actually LIVE on a boat?! x

facetious? Just taking the mickey out of Hammy Hampster!

I know caves can be registered and are legal but is it actually "legal" to
live in them? I've read a thread saying that the Junta have stated (due to
H&S law) it isn't and no more should be built in Granada. I'll try and find
the link. On this thread, what would be a realistic price for a reformed or
livable cave with say half an acre of land (excluding agents fees etc)? I've
had a look at a few caves and it would appear that the price to buy and
reform is more than the cost of buying already reformed. Therefore with
your inside knowledge, I mean of real experiences, would you advise against
buying a cave (even with a little land) for reform if it was say more than
€50k? Is it better to buy a finished one already fully legal?

I think you will find that because of the current situation it is in fact more expensive to buy and reform than buy a ready reformed cave. Most unreformed are still owned by Spanish and they have had them in the family for some time and so are in no hurry to sell so the prices are still up. The Brits and other nationalities that are moving back need the cash and so are having to accept a lower offer.

floralaura wrote:I know caves can be registered and are legal but is it actually "legal" to
live in them? I've read a thread saying that the Junta have stated (due to
H&S law) it isn't and no more should be built in Granada. I'll try and find
the link. On this thread, what would be a realistic price for a reformed or
livable cave with say half an acre of land (excluding agents fees etc)? I've
had a look at a few caves and it would appear that the price to buy and
reform is more than the cost of buying already reformed. Therefore with
your inside knowledge, I mean of real experiences, would you advise against
buying a cave (even with a little land) for reform if it was say more than
€50k? Is it better to buy a finished one already fully legal?

The article you are referring to is in respect of a new Reform post 2005 in as much as it should comply fully with the same BUILD regulations as would a new house, but with one exception in regard to a usable exit in the event of fire. All current unreformed caves with a Catastral reference can be reformed Legally with no problems - However you can no longer scrape a hole in the ground, call it a cave and build something.

Other problems arising from buying to reform (even if the ruin is registered) is the paper trail, its often the fact that the people selling it may note quite be the people who fully own it. If its an inherited property (Spanish families being large) more often than not their are multiple claims to not only the Cave but the land.

The law (ley) introduced a couple of years ago which compels selling agents to HAVE SIGHT of the property paperwork before marketing only means they have to insure it has a Catastral No - which in its self is useless without a Nota Simple which in turn leads to the production of an Escritura.

SIMPLES -