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Shame on them...........

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Post by Dave Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:10 pm

Is this right or wrong? What do you think?
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Post by invicta Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Thiefs all of them. I see people woking their butts of for what these theifs steel every hour
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Post by Ken Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:03 pm

I can't see a problem. If the pay is related to production/performance and profit. One could say the same about footballers. We could also look at dentists and vets. Using the latter here demonstrates how they rip off ordinary folk when they need a service on limited income. Unfortunately vets and dentists have a monopoly. Chief execs have to perform to remain in post. What about the directors of Cam bank here in Spain paying themselves millions before going to the government for a bail out, then they left,...........with fat pensions/layoffs. Nice one Dave

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Post by Jenny Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:53 pm

Those salaries and bonuses are obscene. Can't see how that level of pay can be justified, no matter how effective the person is. Imo, there should be a maximum wage as well as a minimum wage.
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Post by madaboutveg Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:09 pm

It could be that, instead of paying themselves huge bonuses which everybody was complaining about, they have just put their own wages up, so that we would not notice, greedy b******s!!!!!
Mind you we should not be suprised at this side of human nature, look at the number of greedy ripoff b******s from the UK living here in spain, they will and have ruined many people here through sheer greed and deception, from dodgy tradesmen to ripp off agents. How much would they pay themselves with your money if they could.

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Post by Boothjendar Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:14 pm

I couldn't care less about how much the Bankers pay themselves either in Bonuses or Salary, after all its their shareholders who ultimately decide and it is paid from Company profits not MY pocket.

What exactly do people expect the UK to do???? The question that needs to be asked is this: what effect will the splitting of the retail from the investment function of banks have on the economy???? For whether we like it or not, the two are interdependent. We have little or no manufacturing sector. The UK and therefore its people depend on earning wealth, and on securing growth, largely ONLY through the financial sector.

If we punish the Bankers any more they are most likely to stick 2 fingers up at the UK, move to Switzerland or the like, which would bankrupt not only the city of London but would most likely mean the UK going cap in hand to the IMF, remember the UK's deficit is not that much smaller than Greases and part of the taxes raised to pay it back are coming from the banking sector.

Greece, has a deficit of 10.5pc, followed by the UK at 10.4pc. Spain, at 9.2pc, and Portugal, at 9.1pc,

Off course your entitled to think throwing all the Bankers out then raising personal income tax for those still in employment to say 60 or 70 percent is a good solution !!!

I say leave them alone and concentrate on employment !!



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Post by medianige Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:16 pm

one small point - the UK deficit is 68% of GDP. Greece is 123% of GDP. Rather a large difference actually. We could still, despite Labour selling our gold at around 18% of its value, pay our debts off or borrow against existing assets.

I do agree with your comments about the bankers. The problem, as I see it, is that no-one forced anyone to borrow more money than they could afford to repay and those that did - whether to buy houses and lots of holidays etc. - deserve everything they have coming to them.

My ex-wife and I were offered a 100% mortgage when we married, but we couldn't afford that, so borrowed what we could pay back. Of course, that was in the day when the BoE regulated borrowing instead of Labour's creation, the FSA, which they forgot to legislate with penalising powers... Still the existing government will get the blame, no doubt.
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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:16 am

''one small point - the UK deficit is 68% of GDP. Greece is 123% of GDP. Rather a large difference actually''



The 10.4pc is based on the ONS Government borrowing figures at a monumental £170.8 billion, 2010

against

The ONS statistics on total revenue which is 153 billion. 2010

GDP is really only a bit of a con usually put forward by politicians as a stat to make things seem better as the figures are massaged by way of expectation rather than year on year fact. Even last quarters growth of 0.5pc when averaged out over 12 months equates to only 0.1pc.

Totally support your other comments.


If ever there was a controversial icon from the statistics world, GDP is it. It measures income, but not equality, it measures growth, but not destruction, and it ignores values like social cohesion and the environment. Yet, governments, businesses and probably most people swear by it. According to François Lequiller*, head of national accounts at the OECD, part of the problem is that perhaps we expect to much.

Click


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Post by madaboutveg Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:17 am

Sorry, but are`nt you getting off the point, as I see it the question was, should company chiefs be getting huge rises in earnings while profits have fallen in the same period, of course not, simples

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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:58 am

madaboutveg wrote:Sorry, but are`nt you getting off the point, as I see it the question was, should company chiefs be getting huge rises in earnings while profits have fallen in the same period, of course not, simples

It does off course seem immoral, but if Britain want's to retain that industry then what else can be done. The UK already regulated them more than any other country, many of which would love to poach them away!!!!

Perhaps we should worry more about the other remuneration injustices which we can do something about.

Is it right that an 18yr old Infantry soldier on tour in Afghanistan should be paid less than a traffic warden in London?

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Post by mikey Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:03 am

If the bosses are getting massive money and the companies are not state owned, who cares, it is there money to spend where they want to. Yes it is obscene but it is there money that they can do what they like with.
If one person gets 200 pound a week and another gets 50 a week, is it the first persons fault that he has worked hard and earned that money and should refuse it to get the same as the other.
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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:08 am

I couldn't care less about how much the Bankers pay themselves either in Bonuses or Salary, after all its their shareholders who ultimately decide and it is paid from Company profits not MY pocket.

They have been bailed out with public money - yours and mine.

The UK already regulated them more than any other country, many of which would love to poach them away!!!!

Not quite true - see this:


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Post by mikey Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:29 am

The first link published on this thread had the following top earners :-
Mick Davis, Xstrata £18,426,105
Bart Becht, Reckitt Benkiser £17,879,000
Michael Spencer, ICAP £13,419,619
Sir Terry Leahy, Tesco £12,038,303
Tom Albanese, Rio Tinto £11,623,162
Sir Martin Sorrell, WPP Group £8,949,985
Todd Kozel, Gulf Keystone Petroleum £8,913,223
Don Robert, Experian £8,601,984
Edward Bonham Carter, Jupiter Fund Management £8,003,641
Dame Marjorie Scardino, Pearson £8,003,641

None of these companies have been bailed out using public money so why is it any of our business where their money goes to and how much they pay?
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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:35 am

Yes, you're right Mikey - my sloppiness, sorry. I was thinking specifically of bankers, but they're not the people targeted in Dave's original link.
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Post by mikey Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:37 am

I did wonder Jenny as you are usually spot on but this time i had to say something as, like you say this is not aimed at the slimy bankers.
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Post by madaboutveg Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:50 am

mikey wrote:If the bosses are getting massive money and the companies are not state owned, who cares, it is there money to spend where they want to. Yes it is obscene but it is there money that they can do what they like with.
If one person gets 200 pound a week and another gets 50 a week, is it the first persons fault that he has worked hard and earned that money and should refuse it to get the same as the other.

Thats fine up to apoint, we should not be jealous of somebody because they earn more money, but we can be angry at the way some people go about it, there must be a social responsability of some kind or we end up back in the 1800`s when people did not matter. If you shut down a factory in the uk because the Indians can supply that part for less, you may make the balance sheet look better this year and justify your bonus, but, people lose jobs and if that happens then who will buy the products, also when the Indian workers want the same rights and privilges as UK workers their parts will go up in price and it could then be cost effective to make them again in the UK, but guess what, the factory site is a Tesco super store and no one can remember how to make the parts.
I dont even begin to think that I have the answers, i believe that profit must be made but the social cost and a longer term view must be taken into account, in that way there is something for everyone.

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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:52 pm

That's the voice of humanity and sanity, madaboutveg.
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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:12 pm

Jenny wrote:That's the voice of humanity and sanity, madaboutveg.

Really, think I've heard about a system which fits, should you want it??

Communism the social, political and economic movement aimed at the establishment of a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production.

Wonder how that's working out ??

This ideology significantly influenced history, and saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (communist states) and the "capitalist world" (countries with market economies and democratic forms of government) UK, culminating in a Cold War with the "Free World".
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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:38 pm

Nothing humane about Communism, Boothjendar!
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Post by medianige Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:36 pm

One of the things that is often forgotten is that banks are, generally, the main stimulus to a capitalist economy. They take our money and that of corporates and look for ways to make money from it. Most commercial banks invest the money and make around 65-70% of their profit from investing (about 6-10% frm lending to the individual).

Without robust regulation, which Gordon Brown removed as chancellor in 1998, banks began to invest more than they had assets for, as leveraged income or hedged, and business and individuals were also allowed to borrow more than assets were worth. Whilst this may not be morally acceptable, one can only blame if one would not do the same.

How many people borrowed money against their houses that pre-98 they would not have been ALLOWED to? How many businesses expanded on chattel-based loans that were worth more than the chattel?

As for socialism, well, my father always said that the only true socialists are those who can afford to be (and he was General Sec of Nalgo, we had Scarbill et al at my house a lot when i was a child). Next time you see a man without food, a woman without a new coat, take the food from your child or grandchild and give to the needy. He was right, we all want to be able to buy the things we (think we) need and we all (or enough of us to statistically be 'all') would earn more if we could, get more rent from our houses if we could, charge more for our goods and services if we could.
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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:07 pm

Jenny wrote:Nothing humane about Communism, Boothjendar!

I agree so lets hope the current ground swell against Capitalism and the Occupy protests don't develop any more momentum then!!

''Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels predicted that one day countries would overthrow all governments flog the bankers and share equally''

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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:27 pm

so lets hope the current ground swell against Capitalism and the Occupy protests don't develop any more momentum then!!

Can't agree there, I'm afraid. The system shouldn't have to be one polar extreme or the other. There has to be a comproimise somewhere in the middle. Like madaboutveg above, I don't claim to know the answers but, quite frankly, I'm on the side of the Occupy protesters and would join them if I could.
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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:17 pm


Some extracts from the Melbourne press about Occupy.


In the recent general assembly meeting the crowd voted to lynch the Queen during her visit.

Concerns are being raised about what happens when the crowd grows to the tens of thousands and someone puts "Let's kill all the paedophiles," or "let's sink all the refugee boats" to the vote?


It is only a matter of time until the decent protesters of Occupy are usurped by hard liners with very different agenda's.
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Post by Jenny Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:29 pm

Well, at least you acknowledge that the Occupy protesters are decent. Smile
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Post by Boothjendar Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:41 pm

Jenny wrote:Well, at least you acknowledge that the Occupy protesters are decent. Smile

Unfortunately even though the people at St Paul's may well be decent there is a precedent for this type of protest in London to end in disaster, Ian Tomlinson died during the 2009 G-20 summit protests, and even Charles and Camilla's car was attracted during the student protests of last year. Heaven help us if London Corporation try to move them on and the protest is Hijacked by the already post London Riot disenfranchised youth!!

I fear, after watching some of the Wall St footage things won't end well!!
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