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Views On Testing On Animals!

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Ian Sharp
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Post by Ann Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:18 pm

In a perfect world I'd save the animals from being tested on and I'd also save the people.

However there are so many people in this world that need medical and genetic help that I must lean towards testing on human volunteers or animals. I hate the idea of animals being tested on but feel it's just as necessary as eating them until there is an alternative.

Testing animals for cosmetics and unnecessary things I abhor as I do the thought of torture or lawful murder of criminals, who could possibly be innocent and are always someone's son/daughter. Even though there are times when I feel I'd love to see certain criminals suffer.

Alas this world is not perfect therefore if we don't have medical research on animals then we will have many more adults and children suffering for so much longer. Many of the recent breakthroughs in medical science have been the direct result of animal testing and for that I am grateful, even though I pity the animals.

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Post by Cave Bunny Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:27 pm

Yup, many alternative remedies and medicines out there making shed-loads LESS money for the big corps like Glaxo (whose drugs are consiously avoidable). Most of them have been based on the good old workable remedies anyhow, like asprin/willow. Alternatives are equally effective, with far less side effects, and without needless cruelty to animals who do not share the same genetic make-up as us; and tested on 1000s of people over hundreds of years.

My philosophy: If you haven't got the balls to do it yourself (which I don't), don't eat it, wear it or use it. Stand by your beliefs. I couldn't kill a pig or chicken, or skin a cow, or stick a needle in a rabbit's eye. So I try my best to harm none. But that's me, and you are you: that's the joy of life.

However, that does not mean there isn't a time and place for 'conventional' medicine. But, personally, that's always my last option.

xx
flower

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Post by claresaccessories Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:02 pm

Think Ann hit the nail on the head - human volunteers are the answer for drug testing.
As a former nurse I am more than aware of the good that drugs do - indeed are essential in most cases. However animals do not have the choice of whether they are used - they just are. Surely more accurate and faster results would be achieved by using humans in the first place, saving time and money.
In many countries, people are paid for donating organs, blood etc, so I am sure there would be a market for people to be paid good money to be tested on.
As pointed out by happychic - there are many alternative natural remedies available which are widely underused and misunderstood, so maybe education is the answer. Lets be honest, how many people rush to their medicine cabinet and pop a couple of aspirins or paracetamol because they have a headache?
As for the SPARKS sponsorship - I am happy to donate money to charities which specifically deal with an illness, particularly those involving children, such as the Great Ormond Street appeal which directly benefits those young patients, but if (and I reserve judgement like happychic until the report comes back) the money is to be used as a general method of animal testing for many different illnesses, then I do not agree with that.

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Post by HappyChic Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:04 am

No reply email as yet !!!!! Not even a thankyou for your enquiry !!!!

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Post by HappyChic Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:59 am

Testing drugs is openly tested on human beings and has been going on for a few years now.
Pfizer European R&D Headquarters, Sandwich, Kent UK - Pharmaceutical company advertise in the local papers for heathly individuals to apply, then if accepted and pass alot of health checks, for which a payment is given for the time taken they are accepted on to the trials...........Which take place at the wing Pfizers have at the Kent & Canturbury hospital. I have been to this place and seen for myself what happens as a friend of mine takes part in the trails. She gets paid for the length of the trial, which could be a couple of days of a few weeks............It takes alot to get accepted as you have to be 100% heathly, she went in once to be turned away at the start of the trial, they said she had a flu virus........she felt fine, a week later she was ill in bed with Flu !
I have a huge respect for Pfizers for doing this, taking the route they are taking, unfortunatley they also do test on animals, but at least they are trying.
A few years ago they did trials for a wonder drug, alot of my friends did the trial as good money was paid...........The product passed and is now Viagra.
The point of this post is that Humans are tested on, in a very open way, but it is there choice to do this.
Hopefully this is the way it is going to go over the years alot of places have closed down and Pfizers have taken on the trials, i hope this carries on.

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Post by claresaccessories Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:04 pm

This definitely sounds like the way forward for drug testing - and huge respect to Pfizer for this. Presumably several other drug companies may be doing the same and we may not know about it.
The important point about this is that humans have the choice of whether to be tested on - animals do not.
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Post by Ann Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:06 am

Before testing can be done on humans, animal testing must be completed and assumed safe to test on humans. It's deemed best having dead mice or rats than dead humans (unfair to animals I know but manslaughter is still illegal, volunteers or not). Thorough testing on volunteers must be done also before any drug can be licensed for use on the general public.
If we bypass the animal testing we can have disastrous results in the long term, the drug thalidomide comes to mind of a past disaster. As it is years of testing has to be done before drugs can be used by us.

How I wish we had a better method of testing these drugs and alternative medicines but many people out there with incurable diseases are praying for a breakthrough. These people would gladly jump at the chance to be tested on (without payment) if it meant the chance of a cure but his is where disaster can strike, new ideas can look great under the microscope and in theory but fall apart at the seems when it comes to the actual tests.

It's a mine field out there.

Personally I feel that for now animal testing is necessary but should be done as humanely as possible, just as I feel that animals should be reared and slaughtered humanely before we eat them, (they don't have any choice in this either). I love all animals and detest any sort of cruelty to them, I certainly could never do the testing/slaughtering myself but I'm glad that there are people out there that can or the human race would have died out many generations ago.
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Post by mikey Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:44 am

The best and most intelligent post so far by Ann, well done Ann that summed it all up perfectly.
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Post by LUHG Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:04 am

Having read all the posts to date, i have to agree with Ann's last post. At the moment it is the lesser of two evils. Perish the thought that HappyChic is ever in the position to choose between her child and an animal, although i think she did say she would pick the child? When you have children or any loved one for that matter you are greatful that these new drugs have been tested and are safe for humans to take. My father died in July of last year. He had Parkinsons, dementia and died of pneumonia, but he was able to have a few decent years living with Parkinson's as a result of some of these drug tests. he was able to play his beloved golf right up until the last 2 years. So i am sorry if a few furries died to help my father have some more years of comfort and for me to enjoy his company for a little while longer.

As one of the previous posts suggests, to test new drugs on criminals is no better than the experiments the Nazis were doing during the 30's and 40's. So this cannot be the way forward!

We are laughed at around the world and here in Spain for the way we sometimes appear to love our animals more than humans but to test drugs on humans would take animal rights too a whole new level

I know mikey and his family very well and for one will be donating to this worthy cause. His lovely daughter is doing really well at the moment and is a credit to him.

So mikey ' run fat boy run!!!!!! ' Laughing
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Post by Imagemaker Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:16 pm

Great post Ann.
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Post by mikey Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 pm

Thanks for that LUHG, make sure you pass my details onto all those clients of yours with dodgy barnets.

Soon be down to running weight so will pop in one day when passing your cave.
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Post by HappyChic Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:25 pm

I think theres been some great posts on here, we all have our own views and its great to be able to discuss them without being nasty, i was stopped today, twice in Baza, and this was discussed, sure has got people talking Smile Mad as it is!
I did not start this topic to divert people from giving to Mikeys cause, just to point out my views and to give people a chart for charities that are open and honest about testing on animals and their policies. I thought maybe if i did this more people would be aware of the charities that are open and honest with policies. Not all charities are good one, the RSPCA being one of them.
Mikey emailed me personally and asked me to sponser him, i was very busy at the time and without researching SPARKS i went ahead, thankfully the bank card failed and i was going to do it later Smile
I presumed SPARKS was ok as its not a charity i have had dealings with and have never heard of the name, i saw Mikeys posting about 40 + medical experiments and looked on the list i use a lot, and saw the no comment, i emailed them and reserved judgement, i did expect a reply but they have not bothered, therefore it is my choice not to go ahead with the sponsership and i had hoped Mikey, knowing me and my mad ways would understand.
Testing on Animals is a huge moral of mine, i choose to take alternative medicines as and when i need it, i do not preach to those who do not, but am quite open in how i think, there are huge moral conflicts on the subject, we are all individuals and can all have our own points of views.
The world is changing on this subject, rapidly, there are now residential homes open for 'service users' who just wish to take alternative medicines. Humans can be used as guinea pigs, its a choice! Hundreds of Labs have been closed down and other routes are being taken.
As stated before in a previous post we as humans do not have the same genes as animals, the more society and illnesses are changing their are now drugs that have to be tested on humans and not animals. I doubt in my lifetime that it will rule out experiment testing on animals but i do hope one day it does happen.
There are criminals out there given death sentences for their crimes, if given a choice would they choose to live and test drugs to do the world some good ? Am i so wrong in my way of thinking ?
I stand by my statements made, i do not really care what im called, or what people think of me on here, yes im slightly animal mad, but my animals are my life, its my way of life and im happy.
I did not intend to offend anyone by making my statements and i think its been a great discussion, there is no answer, its all just points of views and a few facts thrown in.
I admire Mikey for running the marathon, but i will not sponser a charity until i am aware that they do not test on animals, just like i do not wear make up that has been tested on animals.
There is one post that is bugging me and would love a real answer....if anyone knows
Mikey stated that one of SPARKS first successes was for the Polio vaccine SPARKS was founded in 1960, as far as i was aware the polio vaccine was pioneered in the US in 1955. Human trials began in 1957 and it was licensed in 1962 for use.
I would feel more inclined to give a donation directly to the charity who deals with set issues rather than to one which seems to have lots of fingers in different pies and seems quite vague about it all. For instance if I gave £10 as was suggested, how much of that would actually go to the organisation or charity involved in Mikeys daughters illness? It would be so diluted that I don't feel she would benefit. However if I gave the full £10 direct , say it was Gt Ormond St Hospital, then all of that £10 goes to them.
The detail on their own site seems very vague to me.

I really had hoped that SPARKS would have replied to my nice and polite email. I even offerd to fund raise!

I am going to end my part of this topic now as i have said all i can, as said i admire Mikey for doing the marathon, but i stand by my views.
My favourite reply was Devon Daves! Beacause it made me laugh is the only reason!
Lots of good points have been raised and im sure we could go on and on.............and on


Last edited by HappyChic on Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Imagemaker Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:45 pm

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Post by HappyChic Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:59 pm

Thankyou so much, very indepth info.
I will read and take more in, Thankyou.

Just a PS....to a previous post, my 18 year old daughter is deaf, she has to wear two hearing aids, she is not going to recover and will be completley deaf in later years, all due to a doctor not knowing his stuff, she went to him after an upbringing of alternative medicines and not having a days illness, for an ear infection, he gave her drops! They burnt out her ears and now there is no chance of recovery! The drops prescribed were tested on animals, not humans! There is a point to all of our posts, i hope you can understand mine x
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Post by Ann Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:56 pm

I don't think you have offended anyone HappyChic and I hope you were not offended by any comments on here.
As you say we all have our personal opinion on this very touchy subject, I for one admire your strong feelings on the subject and if it weren't for people like yourself animals would surely suffer greatly at the hands of humans. Keep up the good work!
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Post by sierra_satellites Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:43 pm

[/quote]I admire Mikey for running the marathon, but i will not sponser a charity until i am aware that they do not test on animals, just like i do not wear make up that has been tested on animals.
[/quote]

Would it be possible to sponsor Mikey by donating to another charity? Perhaps you could choose one that suits.
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Post by HappyChic Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:12 pm

I would quite happily donate to a charity that helped ill children and did not use animals for testing, as for my choice, i can't say, i only really know about animal charities, and honestly some of them are awful, the bosses live in mansions and drive the best cars you can get, i am wary of charities altogether, but if Mikey comes up with one he wishes me to donate to and they are legite then yep, i'd even help fundraise. Smile
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Post by mikey Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:04 pm

If Happychic would like to donate to another charity that is fine by me but i am running for SPARKS so i would only say to donate to them, SPARKS do not carry out any research themselves they collect money to fund others to carry out the research, the reason i picked SPARKS is purely personal due to my daughters own problems which everone on here knows about, i will do everything and anything to raise as much as possible for this very worthwhile cause including auctioning off many very personal items. If anyone wants to sponser me then i am truely thankful to them all but if anyone doesn't that is their choice and i can respect their wishes. (take a look in the for sale section soon for items for sale to raise money)
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