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Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

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Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:57 pm

Hi, all,

The below link when opened, should be self explanatory:

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Basically by 25th. August of this year when the new EU Directive comes into being, it is well advised to make sure that if resident you have a clause in your Spanish will that clearly states that you either wish to have the 'Law of your natural Country' (i.e. UK) rules to apply to succession / inheritance or the prevailing Spanish law.

I am no expert on the matter, but have spoken to our Solicitor and confirmed the clarification. Obviously, if in doubt take professional advice, but just to give a 'heads up' on this important subject, as unless theres a clause, Spanish law will apply which may not be suitable for YOU and yours.


Last edited by Lurchio on Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : mis - speeellin.)
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Him & Her on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:27 pm

We are just making our wills in the UK and will have added that all our assets in Spain would be included in this will, do we need to make a will in Spain ? If we do it will void this will so my question is can we just have our UK wills ??
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:06 am

PLEASE take professional advice ASAP, this is very important in relation to your Spanish assets. Its not right for me or anyone else on here to even offer any guidance on this, as its a biggie and an important personal choice. As stated I am NO expert on this, but I believe most people have a Spanish will in relation to their Spanish assets as well.
Why not contact the Solicitor in Spain that did your house purchase?
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lesley on Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:07 pm

Hi

We are moving over in July and have also just re done our UK wills and although it does give provision for Spanish assets our solicitor has advised that we should also have a Spanish will which we will do when we get there.
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Him & Her on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:16 pm

Lurchio wrote:PLEASE take professional advice ASAP, this is very important in relation to your Spanish assets. Its not right for me or anyone else on here to even offer any guidance on this, as its a biggie and an important personal choice. As stated I am NO expert on this, but I believe most people have a Spanish will in relation to their Spanish assets as well.
Why not contact the Solicitor in Spain that did your house purchase?

We have been advised by the person preparing our will that because we are in the EU with the new directive that we only need one will so really confused now, if I ask the solicitor he is bound to say we need a spanish one as he will make money, no disrespect to him but business is business
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Ken on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:07 pm

I have had several clients who have had problems executing an English will here in Spain. It can be done but takes a long time and there is, as always a financial implication.
I copied the information below that describes some of the challenges.

Legalising a UK Will in Spain is MORE EXPENSIVE and MORE COMPLICATE than having an existing Spanish Will. So, if you had not a Spanish Will, and you only have a UK Will, then, your inheritors, in order to execute the UK Will in Spain, they have do the follwing:

1. A certified copy of the UK Grant of Probate must be legalised with “La Hague Apostile”, which is an international stamp obtained from the Foreign Office.

2. A Spanish translation of this certified copy must be prepared and validated by an official translator.

3. A Spanish lawyer must be empowered to prepare a list of the assets in Spain, and to execute the will, and pay the inheritance taxes.

4.- A Spanish Notary must then proceed with the execution of the Will

Due to all the above complicate process to execute a foreign Will in Spain, with all these steps, and expenses, it is recommendable to make a Spanish Will in Spain. It will safe your inheritors time and money.

Important recommendations when making a Spanish will:

Ask for previous advice to a specialist in International Inheritance. Not all the Lawyers and legal advisers have the necessary qualification to deal with international inheritance.

CHOOSE YOUR LAW. Make sure that the law chosen will be the one that will regulate your Probate.

CHECK YOUR CURRENT WILLS!

Coordinate UK Will with Spanish Will. Inform your Solicitor about your UK Will, if any, in order to elaborate the Spanish Will in accordance with he UK one. It will avoid contradictory disposals which could create serious problems to your inheritors.

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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:47 pm

Well, there you go..................... something so important needs the 'i's dotted and 't's crossed.  But its your choice as the only thing we HAVE to do in life is die, everything else we can choose.

Please also be aware that Spanish law does not necessarily recognise Step Children if you have any (personal experience), so its essential to cover this in Spain and refer your wishes for disposal of your Spanish assets to UK Law.  We even have a Spanish Funeral Plan, all in the interests of saving our kids grief if the worse happens, as with the Spanish will etc. I expect you'll want to do the same.

If you feel a 'wobble' (everyone does, so don't worry!) just listen to your head / gut feeling and then NAIL IT! You'll sleep better for it! Moving your total life over to Spain (we have recently done this) can sometimes put you in a 'sink or swim' scenario, and you will sometimes need to be robust and gutsy to get what / where you want. This is definitely not the UK and very few organisations exist to take your hand (the truth is that sometimes here, the first answer from officialdom is always 'NO', just because they can!) and during the moving / settling in process you will probably learn more about yourself than you have ever known before, but it can be very satisfying.

I suppose its a bit of the old Pioneer spirit, but its all worth it and if you are going for it, Go for it!!!!

Faint heart and all that........................ and good luck by the way!


Last edited by Lurchio on Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Info.)
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Ken on Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:34 pm

Second all that!

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Wills

Post by janisntony on Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:54 am

We have recently completed the process of a new Spanish will that links to our UK will as described in the excellent advice given by the other contributors.

It is vital for your inheritors that you do this or you will let them in for a prolonged period of expense(that they may not easily be able to fund at the time),hassle and grief.

JUST DO IT. Smile

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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Mandi on Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:10 pm

Hi, Who have you got your funeral plans with? And aprox how much please.

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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by La Mancha on Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:32 pm

Don't think it has been mentioned but we were advised that UK wills can easily take 6 months to get Probate. Spain does not allow that length of time and so you will be liable for fines if you can't file quickly because of delays in the UK.

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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:04 pm

Mandi,

The plan is with Meridiano in Baza, office in Baza itself. It covers a 2300 euro funeral PLUS has 18,000 euros of accidental death (only accidental death!) cover as well. Costs 24 euros per month for BOTH of us..... no brainer! MORE IMPORTANTLY, Meridiano handle everything in a single phone call or visit , including flowers / tanatorio / transport /cremation AND have the local 'pull' to delay things whilst any rellies come from the UK. For us, the foregoing was priceless. Again, takes the strain off our kids, again priceless. Price will vary slightly depending on where you live, but theres not much in it.

All for the price of a couple of Menu del Dias. We don't work for them, and not connected / will gain in any other way!
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Mandi on Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:05 pm

Thank you

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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:15 pm

Mandi, my mistake! The monthly payment is 21 euros for both of us, even better!
I know if you live to a ripe old age, you have paid FAR more in than you get out, but not having my crystal ball I didn't want to 'lay it on' my wife or Children if the worse happens AND what if we both 'snuff it' at the same time? The kids only have to ring the Company and things will be done for them. That's important in Spain.
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Mandi on Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:50 pm

Thanks, seen sites on here or fb but wanted more local. Do they have any English? and can you give me address please.

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I have been sent this it might be useful

Post by Him & Her on Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:58 pm

I have been sent this by the company we are having our UK wills prepared with and it might be useful to help with the confusion.

CONFUSION AD INFINITUM
(REGULATION 650/2012 OR THE BRUSSELS IV)

If your clients do not have assets in the EU States, the new Regulation will be of little more than academic interest.

For British citizens who do have assets in the EU States, there are changes due which should enable them to know in advance which law will apply to their succession. This is the objective of Reg.650/2012.

English common law means English testators can leave their assets to whomsoever they wish, (subject to the Inheritance Family Provisions legislation). This is known as testamentary freedom.

In continental Europe a big part of an estate (often around half) is reserved for the surviving children of the deceased and must be equally divided between them. This “forced heirship” makes it impossible to disinherit financially irresponsible children; it also makes it hard to reward the deserving by, say, leaving more to a daughter who gave up a career to care for her ailing parents.

Also “clawback” laws in many countries stop parents from dodging forced heirship by giving assets away in their lifetime. This applies to gifts made in the last years of life (two years in Austria, ten in Germany), or much longer: in some countries, no time limit applies.

If you are resident in England with real estate in France, for example, the laws of forced heirship will apply to that part of your estate in France.

From August 17th 2015, when the new regulation comes into operation, the succession rules imposed by forced heirship will change. Any British national who has property in one of the participating States can choose the country of their habitual residence or nationality as the law to govern who gets what when they die.

In other words, they can put a provision in their wills stating that they wish English law to be the applicable law for their assets situated in an EU State.

“I, Tom Cat, wish the devolution of my property in Spain to be governed by the law of my nationality”. Tom can put this provision in his will even if he lives in Spain and not in England. This is known as a nomination and clients with property in an EU state should consider a new will to take advantage of Regulation 650/2012 and make the appropriate nomination.

The new regulation applies to all citizens wherever they hail from, so Bruce, an Australian national, with property in a participating EU State can make a nomination for Australian Law to apply to his property in France.

And although the UK has opted out of the Regulation [as have Ireland and Denmark] British nationals can make an election under the laws of those participating States.

For example, Donald, an Englishman, retired to live in Spain. He has a house, bank account and furniture in Spain and a house in England which he rents out for income. He states that he wishes succession of his assets to be governed by some part of Britain, for example English law, as opposed to the law where he is resident.

(Note: Local tax laws will apply to assets in the E.U. and English tax laws will apply on death in the usual way).

The deceased may choose the law of his nationality to apply to succession of all of his assets across the Brussels IV zone. In other words, there is now an opportunity for people with property in a Regulation State to elect in their Wills that the law of their nationality should apply to the succession of their relevant EU property.

The selection of the law of nationality must be made expressly in a will or analogous document. The application of these clear rules to the estates of individuals dying after 17 August 2015 should simplify matters.

For English nationals with foreign assets, it would be advisable in most cases for them to make an election that succession to their assets situated in the Brussels IV zone should be via English law.


College of Will Writing Tutor
Solicitor





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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:18 pm

So what will you do, then? UK and Spanish will with an addition to have the UK succession law apply to your Spanish assets or just a UK will with a Caveat in relation to your Spanish assets?

It may help you to know that Spanish 'mirror' wills should cost no more than about 350 euros for both of you, including Notario fees.

Of course, its entirely your choice and nobody elses business, so good luck with it all.
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Him & Her on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:24 pm

I think spanish & English with UK succession I think you dot the eye and cross the t's hopefully, thank you for your help
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Lurchio on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:32 pm

Is (IMHO) the correct answer! Enjoy, once you get all the 'big stuff' out of the way, its plain sailing but as I said, it can be one of the more stressful times when you move your living over here. It IS worth it, again in my humble opinion. Good luck, stay sharp!
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Re: Succession and Wills : New EU Rules

Post by Mariposa on Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:56 pm

Lurchio wrote:
It may help you to know that Spanish 'mirror' wills should cost no more than  about 350 euros for both of you, including Notario fees.


If anyone in the Galera, Huescar, Orce, Castillejar area would like help doing their Wills - they cost around 50 Euros per person, depending on how many copies you want.

I have helped several people already.

Please PM me for more details.

Caroline
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