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declaration of assets abroad.

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declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pobo on Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:00 am

I have been told that for all of us residents in Spain, there is a new piece of legislation from 30th January 2013.

The Spanish Legal System has given a maximum of 3 months in order to declare to the System the bank accounts, properties and assets of any kind that Tax Payers that are residents in Spain own, outside of Spain.

Orden HAP/72/2013, de 30 de enero, por la que se aprueba el modelo 720, declaración informativa sobre bienes y derechos situados en el extranjero, a que se refiere la disposición adicional decimoctava de la Ley 58/2003, de 17 de diciembre, General Tributaria y se determinan el lugar, forma, plazo y el procedimiento para su presentación

Has anybody done this yet?

Does anybody know how to do it? We cannot rely on ignorance etc. etc.


Last edited by pobo on Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added post-script)
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pobo on Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:16 pm

Be Warned
The declaration is for all residents of Spain and is now part of your annual tax return.
"The potential cost of non-disclosure of overseas assets by expats who are officially resident in Spain could be more than the value of the assets themselves."
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Gobiker56 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:51 am

This constant struggle to extract every last Cent out of everyone is picking up pace. Look at the poor Cypriots, money possibly being STOLEN out of their bank accounts. Just goes to show you the power held by goverments. They even stopped internet banking and closed banks so people couldn't get to draw all their money out before the robbery took place. To think for one moment that you can 'hide' money is naive in the extreme. All databases can easily interconnect, even across borders, they KNOW what you have coming in/spend/have saved, what property you own and it's perceived value. What vehicle/s you own and where they are. Big Brother is here and has been for a long time. They can and do, take money out of your bank account without your permission. I know, I have had money taken out for unpaid IBI urbana. What a world.
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pobo on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:26 pm

Any of your assets held overseas (e.g. in the UK) with a value of €50,000 or more, need to be declared by April 30th 2013 to avoid the risk of receiving heavy fines.
Any income found to be non-declared will be subject to a fine of 150% of the taxable amount which you will have to pay in addition to the tax that’s due.
Non-disclosure of assets will be costly! These assets include:
If you have over €50,000 in Bank Accounts.
Properties and rights over properties that have an average market value over €50,000.
Shares over €50,000
Life Insurances over €50,000
Annuities over €50,000
Company Shares value over €50,000
Unit & Discretionary Trusts value over €50,000

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Dave on Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:01 pm

Wish I had! Laughing

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by littletrog on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:02 am

This is from the Blevins Franks website. Note it is for those who are tax residents not if you are just residents, i.e those who pay Spanish tax.

The Spanish government introduced its new anti-fraud law, Ley 7/2012, on 29th October. Its aims are to:

Increase penalties on those who commit tax fraud
Increase tax collection
Set out new measures to collect tax debts
Eliminate the effective application of the statute of limitations regarding undeclared assets.

The most important measure for most expatriates is the new obligation for Spanish taxpayers to report assets located outside Spain. More details were included in the Royal Decree on 15th November 2012.

This is a new, additional requirement for Spanish taxpayers. You remain obliged, as always, to also fully declare your annual worldwide income for income tax purposes, and your taxable worldwide assets for wealth tax purposes.

Reporting procedure

From now on, anyone who is tax resident in Spain must declare all the assets they own outside Spain.

You need to make the declaration on a new official form, to be released shortly.
Reporting must be done by the end of the first trimester each year, although the deadline has been extended for reporting assets held as at 31st December 2012, so that your first deadline is 30th April 2013. For future years, the deadline will be 31st March for the previous 31st December.

Assets to be declared

If you own any of the following assets outside Spain, valued at €50,000 or more, you need to declare them.

Accounts held with financial institutions
All types of immovable property (real estate) and rights over such property
Shares and securities
Life insurance policies
Temporary or lifetime income generated from the lending of money, rights or other assets (including immovables) to foreign entities.

You need to declare these assets if you are the owner, the beneficiary, or an authorised signatory. This includes assets held by a trust or fiduciary.
If the value of your total assets in each class is less than €50,000, you are not obliged to report.

Hope this helps.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pobo on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Following on from littletrog's information;
“Note it is for those who are tax residents not if you are just residents, i.e those who pay Spanish tax.”
I have spoken with two independent solicitors and tax-advisers, who confirmed that if you are resident in Spain then you are to complete your annual tax return along with the declaration of assets.
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Young Les on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:46 pm

My wife and I were advised by a solicitor that a tax return must be completed every year. Even if that means putting zero on all the entries.
For the last few years we have been completing our tax forms and declaring our private pensions earned and taxed in the UK.
Being a Spanish resident we are able to put our overseas earnings together to be taxed as a couple.
In the UK I pay tax on my earnings but being as my wife earns a pittance, there is no need for us to pay tax in Spain, however, we are able to get a tax rebate on taxes we pay automatically to our bank for savings interest.
It is possible to get a form from the UK for anyone who would be paying tax in both countries (double taxation).
I would advise anyone to see a tax advisor or solicitor (who specialises in tax) to discuss their personal situation.
Just keeping your head down may not work forever!
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by bigcol on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:27 am

Les!!

surely this cant be right

first thing, who gets interest of any sinifigance on savings nowdays?
and how do you pay tax on 0.2%?

hang on! im getting 1% on an isa

so for every 10,000 what interest would I get,

take away tax ? lol
then less the 3% rise in cost of living

Im thinking houses would be cheap in Cyprus at the mo

col


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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Dave on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:35 am

bigcol wrote:

Im thinking houses would be cheap in Cyprus at the mo

col


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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Young Les on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:27 am

Term savings were very attractive in Spain a couple of years ago. much much better than in the yUK. Don't know what the rates are like now but I'm betting that you could beat your 1% by investing over here. I'm still tied in to fixed term rates both in Euro and GB savings accounts.
I get 4% average on my 3 year Euro account.

For tax information I have found this site:
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Shiny on Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:27 pm

Would a local Gestoria not be able to help with the declaration of assets!? Their job is sorting out paperwork etc for businesses so should know the system. I will see if we can get any information at Annies Gestoria in Benamaurel.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by david kirby on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:42 pm

I was looking at my bank account the other day and the IRS had been taking out a percentage of our meger savings here at least maybe 30e a year . I now have been told to get this money back have to fill in a tax form Mod 100 for 2012 which i can get at the tax office in Baza ! but its filling it all in thats going to be the problem ad yes if you are tax registered here you need to fill in a tax return every year .I have no other property's and just my pension from England so zero's on most things .But just need a help with filling it in and getting it right LOL .
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Ken on Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:10 pm

Natalie has been a great help to me dealing with the Tax office in Baza.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by dorrit on Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:13 pm

I have also had to have dealings with the Tax office in Baza and like you Ken, Natalie has been a great help.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by cavern on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:46 pm


SPAIN'S ASSET DECLARATION LAWS - ONLINE PETITION GROWS .......

The signatures are already starting to roll in. The link below tells you how to sign the petition. It’s important to get friends and members of organizations you belong to, to do likewise. Those who have blogs, use , Twitter, etc. could be very helpful in getting the word around to join in this campaign.

Pass this message on as far and wide as possible:
We urge you to consider signing the petition to the European Parliament concerning the Asset Declaration, linked as follows:

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.
For more information, please visit [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sent on behalf of:
Concerned European Citizens resident in Spain
(Petition soon to be available in German)
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pobo on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:23 pm

I´m not sure that signing this online-petition is such a good idea.
The current crisis in Spain and Europe is being broached and the Declaration of Assets as part of the End of Year tax return is just one step in the right direction.
If you are a resident in Spain you should want to live in a prosperous and thriving country.
Tax evasion, fiscal corruption and fiddling the welfare system are problematic in Spain and are not good practices for the lifestyle that I want to live.
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by cavern on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:27 pm

I think you will find the petition is more about the safety of the process rather than it shouldn't be done and also the fines that can be levied if it hasn't been done correctly .
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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Ken on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:56 pm

Why tell them anything that you have abroad? I bet the Spanish won't ? That seems to be the consensus amongst them. Once they know what you've got, they know the potential for future revenue if needed.
I know we want to live legally here, and the penalties are harsh if we fail to comply. I ask myself, if they don't know what I have, how will they find out?
I got fined nearly €1000, for registering for self employment because I wanted to be legal. Unlike all the others who were in the same line of work as me. I wound the business up, de registered with the tax office and employment office, paid my accountant only to find two years later that the accountant failed to submit two quarterly returns, to cut a long story short, fines escalated because of non payment. (I wasn't aware of them).
I am told I could try and use the accountant. No probably the cheaper option to leave it. We all must do what we believe is right and if telling hem about all your hard earned cash and assets and where they are seems correct, then do it.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Rosier on Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:00 am

Hear Hear, well said Ken.. I was fully legal etc when I had my business a few years back and paid into Social Security etc...there are a lot over here that don't. 'The powers that be' won't be told anything of my finances nowadays, thats private and none of their business...

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Ken on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:12 pm

This morning I went to see an English speaking accountant whoa has a cler understanding of UK Tax etc.
I had an interesting conversation with her regarding declaration of assets. I was well assured that I was an anti corruption/money laundering exercise by the government. She also told me that here is NO reciprocation in exchanging tax and fiscal information between UK and Spain, so I would be difficult for the authorities. Howeve she did say you should register if applicable to you.
Having dealt with here othe accountant here in Spain, two Brit and one Spanish, I found her the best. If anyone wants her details please PM me.

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by pete_l on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:12 pm

Ken wrote:I had an interesting conversation with her regarding declaration of assets. I was well assured that I was an anti corruption/money laundering exercise by the government. She also told me that here is NO reciprocation in exchanging tax and fiscal information between UK and Spain, so I would be difficult for the authorities. Howeve she did say you should register if applicable to you.
Having dealt with here othe accountant here in Spain, two Brit and one Spanish, I found her the best. If anyone wants her details please PM me.

Maybe the arrangements aren't in existence NOW, but they will be soon.

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26 July 2012

This Model Agreement establishes a framework for reporting by financial institutions of certain financial account information to their respective tax authorities, followed by automatic exchange of such information under existing bilateral tax treaties or tax information exchange agreements. It addresses the legal issues that had been raised in connection with the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, simplifies its implementation for financial institutions and provides for reciprocal information exchange

Although FACTA (mentioned in the excerpt) is american, my understanding is that if you've declared assets (savings accounts, rented property etc.) that earn income on a previous UK tax return, this will in the future be available to the foreign governments' tax officials - so long as they know how to ask and can link you to that declaration. And don't forget, these things are retrospective. So even if various governments don't have the ability to find out your affairs NOW, when they do they'll be able to ask for past records and get you for all the declarations you haven't made - up to the current date.

Even Switzerland will rat you out these days

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Re: declaration of assets abroad.

Post by Ken on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:39 pm

You might be right!!!

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