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Denuncia

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Re: Denuncia

Post by ross on Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:57 pm

so true but we all did,because we were all so green 10 yrs ago!!!! Look what it did to me Laughing

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Re: Denuncia

Post by saci on Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:37 pm

Well Dave - might be done to death but whoever is fleeced of 40000 whatevers, just might feel that they might like to "do to death" the culprits. What a Face

I am aware of the legal difficulties of exposing earthworms. Come to think of it I will not degrade earthworms. No They are extremely useful - areate the soil.

But I do recall it was Denis Healy, many years ago - when discussing it being "unparliamentary language" to call someone a liar, had the intelligence and good humour to be able to do so, without the targeted party having a hope in hell of reprise. Laughing So just a little creativity is all that is required Twisted Evil

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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:39 pm

The people I fell foul of are very experienced in what they did, the case is complicated and in a very delicate stage, I have employed one of the most respected law firms in Spain to work with the court in Huescar, in just a few days progress has been made and I have learned that the authorities are taking this very seriously and have made it clear to the crooks that this is big trouble, unfortunatly one of them has done a runner, and a warrant has been issued for his arrest

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Re: Denuncia

Post by ross on Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:13 pm

sounds interesting good luck.

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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:38 pm

Thanks, just to add that the comment about not trusting your agent is very true. I may have a biased view but, if these people knew what they were doing why are they selling holes in the ground in huescar instead of serious properties in the UK. It turns out that our agent used to be a car salesman in the UK confused So lets see, I`m a joiner by trade so now I`m here I think I will set up as a car mechanic, anybody want to trust their car to me affraid

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Re: Denuncia

Post by ross on Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:46 pm

can I book in for a filter and oil change with the joiner please Very Happy the lambo is running a bit naf at the moment!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Denuncia

Post by saci on Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:22 pm

done a runner? A good case for the old ancient Anglo-Saxon provision of 'WEREGELD'

Otherwise - still think Kneecapping is too good for such vermin. Glad the plaintiff has good legal representation and hope it won't render you impecunious. pig
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Re: Denuncia

Post by Twisted Fire Starter on Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:44 pm

madaboutveg wrote:Thanks, just to add that the comment about not trusting your agent is very true. I may have a biased view but, if these people knew what they were doing why are they selling holes in the ground in huescar instead of serious properties in the UK. It turns out that our agent used to be a car salesman in the UK confused So lets see, I`m a joiner by trade so now I`m here I think I will set up as a car mechanic, anybody want to trust their car to me affraid

Unfortunately there are many Brits over here that claim to be tradesmen of one type or another, in reality they've probably never done more than basic labouring.

As far as agents go, well, unfortunately a lot of them are "at it". Anything for a quick buck. There's a local agent round here who's clearly getting back handers for recommending the building services of one company. Either that or they are utterly clueless as to the the competency of the people they're recommending. This is just as bad. Unfortunately I can name neither the agent nor the company in question in this, a publicly viewable thread. Suspect
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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:07 pm

On the one hand as a self employed joiner, from time to time I would have the need to do small items of work around my own that would come under other trades, such as a bit of plumbing when fitting a kitchen, that way you can become a master of one trade and a jack of others, BUT!!! you must know your limitations. some of these people think it is a small step from changing the plug on a lamp to rewiring a house No You will get into bother and then you will need to do a runner, again!!!

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Re: Denuncia

Post by bigcol on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:12 am

I think the guys should be named

The reason is that anyone looking at buying a cave or house in the area must be totally confused and very weary about trusting any agents or builders.
And let's face it we've all had bad experiences about all types of services be it the estate agent to the local mechanic..

Sometimes by naming and shaming, you can get positive results, the people in question might need to have the neg feedback,and change his ways,or give up and go home stopping him or her doing this to other folks.

Or if anyone is wanting these services
First thing to ask, if he knows anything about cars?? Lol

By the way if anyone wants ant advice about houses or building, can't do any worse by contacting twisted fire starter

Does a mean house made from wood


Last edited by bigcol on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : On the iPad and the fingers not working)

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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:34 pm

I think that after the court case these people will not be in any position to hurt anybody else, I know they are still in business for the moment, of course if anybody was to ask my privately who they are It could be different, if they thought that they were at risk of being ripped off by the same people i would feel obliged to put there minds at rest.

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Re: Denuncia

Post by miron on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:02 pm

Blatantadvertising.com wrote:One golden rule might be 'never take the advice of your property agent'

What a shame anyone should have to go through this. One problem is that when we arrive, full of plans and hopes and a pocket full of hard-earned savings we don´t really know what we´re doing - sounds naive, yes it is, but true. And the language difficulties don´t help, nor the fact that property agents are desperate to sell and can be very persuasive! I´m glad in retrospect that we rented for a while before deciding to buy, also that my other-half is less trusting than I am. Even so, we´ve made a few expensive mistakes that we now have to live with.

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Re: Denuncia

Post by ross on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:21 pm

miron welcome to the club.
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Re: Denuncia

Post by medianige on Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:33 pm

The problem is not just that one doesn't know what one is doing but that, when joining a forum for help and advice, there's lots of "chemist over here", "dog food over there"... But.

And this is a massive BUT... When it comes to spending money on builders, or services that are for most people reasonably specialised, the forum has no way to let you know where and who NOT to go to... And its for rather spurious reasons. Certainly the legal argument is without any grounds whatsoever.

Had one been able to ask, and receive an honest reply, I would not have had the problems I have encountered and lost my money. And as for losing 40k, well, where can one find out; why shouldn't we know who? The next person who comes along might go exactly the same route and lose money or hope or whatever. I was recommended the people I used, and without someone there to actually see what was going on, I'd have come back to a chimney made of yeso!!!! The door was left wide open, for how long I have no idea, and I was very worried about my possessions. One of the other things they were to have done doesn't appear to have been carried out to my instructions, there are piles of rubble from their work left on my placeta... Yet I am also extremely pleased with the look of some items that have been fitted.

I have spoken since with two or three people who were aware of these people. Facts are facts. You make, for example, a chimney with yeso, pass yourself off as a builder, you should live with the public knowing this. I wonder if they used yeso because they had no idea or, more likely, it is much cheaper than doing the job with the more appropriate materials? I have since been pointed towards a Spanish builder who is doing four times the work the English ones have done, but at 1/3 of the price. I receive photos of the ongoing work and the builder is happy for someone to go along and have a look. Marked contrast to the English ones. When I asked about what my friend had seen, having had just grainy mobile pics, I received a very sarcastic email in return.
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Re: Denuncia

Post by janga on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:28 pm

I'm sorry but I dont think the forum is the place to name and shame.
The reason being, this could just be a personal opinion, a dissatisfied customer, or a personal vendetta.
As was said in a previous post "after the court case" which I take it as meaning these people have not been found guilty in a court of law.
The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of the Council of Europe says (art. 6.2): "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. So we as forum members should not be acting as judge and jury.
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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:55 pm

medianige mentioned the risk of other people falling foul of the same people, I believe that there were many before us, while being interviewed by the judge he mentioned a case the previous year where the english couple commited suicide before they could complete their investigations, he did not link it directly to these particular B-----ds, but it was a very similar situation. By the searching look on his face at that time I felt obliged to tell him that we would not be doing that, but you see the effect these swine have on people, that poor couple must have felt the bottom fall out of their world. May the swine who pushed them to that point ROT IN HELL

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Re: Denuncia

Post by Boothjendar on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:19 pm

Been reading with interest all the comments on this thread, and like many find it annoying that its difficult to Name and Shame !!

Unfortunately If anything like the described situation ever happened to me I'm sure that the culprits last worry would be about the protection of their Civil/human rights as I'm a firm believer in direct painful action.

Hot headed maybe but most satisfying. Thankfully I've always been lucky when dealing with both the Expat and Spanish workmen both of which I've had need to use extensively over the years.

Good Luck with your case !!
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Re: Denuncia

Post by HappyChic on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:19 pm

Agree with Janga, everybody is different, we all have different situations over here.
1) Why take on a builder and then moan about them ? Go see what work they have before, see if you like the style they work in and like what they have previously done, then go ahead, we all have different tastes and like different results............. Simples !
2) Alot of Brits come here with a stack of cash and leave their brain behind, and then moan because they have ****** up!
When buying a property here, from a complete stranger,in a different country, strange traditions, laws ect.... etc.........
For one use a solicitor, don't buy from a nice old man in the bar, have the paperwork checked and checked again................ i personally did not use a solicitor, as i trusted the people i was dealing with, highly thought off by many people in the area, and i was not let down. if i had of been it would of been my own stupid fault.
Name & Shame stuff does not work on a forum.
Yes there is dodgy people here, builders, so called builders, estate agents and the friendly old man in the bar.............. Use your brain before handing over stupid amounts of money to complete strangers Smile If you see good quality work, go ask who done it, how do i get hold of them Smile Simples Smile
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Re: Denuncia

Post by medianige on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:33 pm

I said... Facts are facts. If one employs a person who passes themself off as a builder and yet they erect a chimney outside in yeso, don't follow the client instructions, then in ANY other form of business I have been involved in, this is not acceptable.

I am not talking about personality clashes here... When I met these people I really liked them.

I am a highly specialised computer expert, but I would not ever have a problem with a person who contracted me to a job I had not carried out correctly from voicing this, if the facts are all that is reported. But then, I would not accept the job if I couldn't do aspects of it and would not say I was a telecomms expert, for example which is similar in many respects.

And this is not someone making a cake you don't like the taste of. This is a lot of money for most people and if it's building work, structural issues come into it, safety... All sorts.

And quoting the law...? Building works are 99.9% civil offences, unless they involve fraud etc., because this would be contractual. So your carefully researched quote of Human Rights doesn't apply. Only if, and usually they don't, the police become involved will 6.2 apply. Also, as I've said before, fair and reasonable opinion is neither defamation, libel nor slander.
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Re: Denuncia

Post by HappyChic on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:51 pm

But surely if you have been let down, ripped off, unhappy with works, then denouce, use legal action, ect........... Using a forum to do it, it doesn't get you anywhere, name and shame would just cause an opening for all the bitching to start, and believe me there would be some Smile
If people here stuck to registered builders, or even ones who are just proud to show their work off, the world would be a happier place Smile
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Re: Denuncia

Post by medianige on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:10 pm

I agree with you Kari. But where you live there, lots of us don't so can't supervise works being done for us. Because of kids and schools and other stuff, I can't come over for more than a few weeks at a time for now... Hopefully I'll be able to come live there soon, but in the meantime, I have to ask and take recommendations as being good recommendations. The work that has been done on my behalf is only small scale and when I come over I don't want to have to spend half the time in the police station, filling forms out and so on. I want to do what I can in my place, enjoy the country, meeting friends like you and Twisted and others.

So...

I have to trust that the people making the recommendations are doing so because those being recommended are what they seem.

And though I can only speak for myself, I would not exaggerate, deviate etc., partly because my employment history has been in twoof the largest law firms in the UK for over 25 years, but also coz I'm an honest guy too. I try to be nice to others, I don't bitch and moan as a general rule but if I am asked for my opinion I will give it honestly. I know lots don't, been a victim of it at work and it is most distressing when it is lies, but the truth? I wouldn't have a problem with the truth being spread around...
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Re: Denuncia

Post by Cave Bunny on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:21 pm

OK chaps, everyone has said their piece and there are clearly different schools of thought. However DD is the main mediator here, and, be it right or wrong in your opinion, he has the final say. He is away at the moment and cannot therefore comment. For the moment, can we now call time on this conversation please?

Thanks muchly

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Re: Denuncia

Post by bigcol on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:53 am

I think it's one of the most interesting post subjects we've had on here for a long time.

It is folks voicing their opinions,and this in it self is what makes us all make decisions,whether they be right or wrong.


To call time on this post defeats the object,the difference between this post and some others is that throughout this discussion everyone has been polite and constructive.

Folks know me for for wearing my heart on my sleeve,I say it as it is straight down the line.


I for one whilst in a tight knit community whilst living in castillejar and being part of the forum,if I fell foul off a rip off,dangerous building practices,or dishonest agents I would do everything in my power to make sure that friends neighbours and forum members would not get ripped of like I had.

Bottom line!!!

They be on the forum ,maybe for only a little while,
But Iwould hate the thought that let say our mt8 Daryl got caught out by the same people just because I kept quite!!

Isn't this why living in a small community all about

It worked for bogus Repsol gas folks,or log or horse shit thieves

Saying that Boothys got it right

Direct action!!





Last edited by bigcol on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Re: Denuncia

Post by Cave Bunny on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:02 am

Was only begin respectful to Dave, for whom I know this subject is a frustration.

Let it flow...
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Re: Denuncia

Post by bigcol on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:25 am

And another thing

Yes I know we all came over here and most of us left our brains in the Uk,but brought our wallets.

That's not to say there are not elaborate scams, local solicitors and Agents that are unscrupulous,and do anything and will continue to carry on conning folks even if we have brought our brains with us.

We all get caught out one time or another,sometimes we do everything right going through the right channels and I know of folks that have still losed thousands and ended up in a right mess.

I'm babbling on now

I'm off behind the parapet

Watch out incoming !!


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Re: Denuncia

Post by bigcol on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:35 am


Cave bunny Very Happy
I didnt mean anything personal

You ladies know what us men are like we go on and on and on lol

Anyway can you blame us??
Calling time, then letting it all flow
No means yes,and yes means no

I went into buy Sharon some flowers yesterday,and the lady behind the counter asked me what I
done wrong then?

I was very close to puting them back, I just wanted to show the wife I still love her,
but I still bought them cos I thought it be a nice surprise.
When I got home,gave then to the wife

And guess what Sharon asked me?????











Last edited by bigcol on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Denuncia

Post by medianige on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:59 am

"wanted to show the missus I still love her"

Why? What had SHE done wrong? Haha. Wimmin should realise we buy flowers or chocolate to forgive them for not having meals ready as we sit down, having shoes polished when we need them, fresh sheets on the bed and clean shirts in the wardrobe. Even the most perfect woman can't get it right AAAALLL the time. So we buy the flowers and the chocolate.

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Re: Denuncia

Post by medianige on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:00 am

Getting on the bike now, ladies. It's fast. You'll not catch me. Fellas, never ever tell 'em you know where I am....

Hahahahaha...
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Re: Denuncia

Post by HappyChic on Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:15 pm

Nige, you said......
'I have to trust that the people making the recommendations are doing so because those being recommended are what they seem.'

Biggest mistake going here Sad your just leaving yourself wide open to all the scams going on here............... Prime targets are those who employ builders but can't oversee the works due to living in the Uk............ and thinking you can trust them because they are English.

Soooooooooo many people here are and have been ripped off, by doing that.........
Its sad, very very sad.
I do not have the solution but the people you dealt with are still at it, and have been for a few years now, no body has ever done any thing about it.....so they continue working and earning a good wage and have the life here people dream of........ Untill people do take legal action, nothing can be done, saying that, you don't have a leg to stand on if you employ builders that are not legite in the spanish sysytem.
Mmmmm am a fan of direct action Smile

Thankfully your are one of a few that has a friend who is now helping you and has a heart of pure gold, your one of the lucky ones Smile
I do speak from experience, i had been had a few times, and seen so much more, hence posts........ I personally would love to name and shame a few rip off con artists here, but respect the forum is not the place to do it, so much prefer the direct action idea Smile
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Re: Denuncia

Post by madaboutveg on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:37 pm

janga wrote:I'm sorry but I dont think the forum is the place to name and shame.
The reason being, this could just be a personal opinion, a dissatisfied customer, or a personal vendetta.
As was said in a previous post "after the court case" which I take it as meaning these people have not been found guilty in a court of law.
The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of the Council of Europe says (art. 6.2): "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. So we as forum members should not be acting as judge and jury.
I take it from your post that you mean I may have a personal vendetta against these people, BLOODY RIGHT I DO, I will not rest until they are behind bars, YES like a lot of people I may have left my brains in the UK, but that does not give two of my fellow countrymen the right to conspire to sell land that they did not own, one of them an ex agent and the other the guy you took over his business, and then to threaten myself and my family "if we made trouble", so YES in my PERSONAL OPINION they are bastards. If this was a mistake then thats fine just give me my money back, but ofcourse he cant because he has run away, with our money. So it seems that he will not be present in court, all there will be is the evidence against him, which the judge is satisfied with thus justifying an international arrest warrant, so if he is planning any travel in the future he may not end up where he intended.I will honour my promise not to name on this forum until the case is concluded, but this is not because of any Human Rights law, it is because I KEEP MY WORD, unlike the three shits, the third being their spanish partner and builder.
One more point, I as an individual can not be prosecuted for telling the truth, if someone is a crook then they are a crook.

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