The Cave, Finca & Cortijo Forum. Andalucia..

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Post by New Trogs on Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:49 pm

We are coming to your area to find and buy a cave house, we would be grateful if anyone can point us to any trustworthy Estate Agents.
We have heard some horror stories. From what we have seen on the internet we should be able to find something good for around 100K
Thanks in advance for any help.

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Re: New to Forum

Post by sierra_satellites on Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:08 pm

As always, you will find different people have different experiences and tales to tell. I would suggest you do your research when you get here and that you don't rush to make any commitments.

You will be welcomed to the site and the area by some lovely people and any good companies will always be able to supply references. You may find it useful to ask if anyone on here has a property within your budget they would like to sell.

Again, Welcome.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by gpg on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:00 pm



hello new trogs,
Edited by Admin. Please read and respect the forum rules.

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Re: New to Forum

Post by Dave on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:35 pm

Welcome to the forum. You appear to be using another members computer? Question

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Re: New to Forum

Post by New Trogs on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:56 pm

yes, only until we go back next week

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Re: New to Forum

Post by Amelie620 on Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:22 pm

Hi New Trogs,
Be very carefull buying any property. The best way is to buy it privately. If your Spanish is not bad, or even better Hire a translator, then you will be saving yourself thousands of pounds. Beware of Estate Agents! When we bought our house we went privately and saved a fortune. You don't even need a solicitor. If everything is in order with the property, then you can do everything through the notaire.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Cave Bunny on Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:50 pm

Good advice from Amelie620, although our solicitor was really helpful and not expensive.

albino
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Sue Burford on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:03 pm

Hi Amelie620 - if you went privately, how did you find out about properties for sale?

I think it is dangerous to tell people they don't need a solicitor - how do you find out if the sellers are all they say they are, and their documents are correct.

Don't think for one moment that ALL Spanish are honest. If things go 'tits up' it is surprising how quickly they can hide behind the language barrier.

We have bought and sold 4 properties over the last 10 years and would certainly recommend that you go through a solicitor. The Notary does NOT do searches and check paperwork - they rely on the solicitors - so if it does go wrong you have no one to fall back on.

Saving money is necessary (especially if you are retiring out here and have limited resources) BUT going 'private' does not mean that you will get a good price from the Spanish vendors. They have prices for their fellow countrymen and higher prices for 'foreigners'.

Good luck to anyone buying out here - but beware!


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Re: New to Forum

Post by Imagemaker on Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:35 pm

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Re: New to Forum

Post by Jenny on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:33 pm

Couldn´t agree more with what Sue Burford says. You do need to use a solicitor to be sure that everything´s in order, just as you do in the UK. I know a couple of people who came to grief because they didn´t use a solicitor, or didn´t use a good one. But don´t necessarily use a solicitor recommended by an estate agent - find a good, independent one yourself. There´s one in particular, Vittorio, known to many on this forum, who´s very good, and who speaks excellent English. I don´t have his contact details to hand, but I´m sure someone else here can provide them.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Amelie620 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:44 am

Hi New Trogs,
We found our house privately because we saw it for sale and asked the neighbours who owned it. My husband is Spanish/French and he is an Interpreter who has bought and sold properties before. He knows the legal system in Spain very well and we have bought two properties here without the use of a Solicitor ( Note to Jenny: Vittorio is the last person I would use!). The Notaire will make sure the boundarys are correct and the vendor is the rightfull owner of the property and is a cross between the land registry and a solicitor. They are perfectly capable of sorting everything out for you. If you need any help at all, my husband would be more than happy to help. Just message me.


Last edited by Amelie620 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correcting information)
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Jenny on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:31 am

@Amelie620 - Have PMd you.

OK - I stand corrected, maybe. Given your husband´s linguistic abilities and property-selling background and (reading between the lines) a good level of business acumen on the part of both of you, I´m sure you were able to process your house purchase painlessly. Sadly, some would-be purchasers arrive up here thinking of it as the "Wild West" - a lawless free-for-all - and take a tumble as a result of naivete combined with arrogance. Or, as a friend of mine puts it, rather less charitably, "they leave their brains behind at the airport".

Another friend bought, in good faith and using a local solicitor, two lots of caves, only to find that one cave house had been "gifted" to someone else previously, although there was no paperwork to support that transaction. The case went to court and, astoundingly, my friend lost the case. I accept that, in that instance, the outcome would probably have been the same regardless of whether they´d used an abogado or a notaire - I guess the message is to be very, very careful and alert - although god knows how a potential purchaser could have access to that sort of information other than via a professional, of whatever level.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by mikey on Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:52 am

I think the main thing is do it privately and steer clear of estate agents wherever possible, i wont ever use an estate agent again.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Amelie620 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:53 am

I definately agree with Mikey, " Steer Clear of Estate Agents Wherever Possible". Its a Free for all with these people, my friends were ripped off big time. They are not regulated and in some circumstances make up to 100% profit, for doing something that you could have done yourself with a bit of patience and research. We looked at over a hundred properties before we found our house and it took us 9 months to find it. There's a lot of other things to take into consideration, how to support yourself ie: work, unless your retired ofcourse, and the job situation here is as bad if not worse than in England. Then there's the language barrier, if you don't speak even the basic of Spanish then that can be a major problem, they could be saying anything to you and if you don't have the knowledge of any Spanish you wouldn't have a clue what they were talking about! Usually people come over here look at the beautiful landscapes and gorgeous weather and thats it, they make the decision of a lifetime without even a second thought!
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Ken on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:43 pm

I have resisted replying to some of these posts. It sounds as if Amelie has been the victim of Estate Agent and Solicitors is the past.
NOT everyone is the same, and caution should be adhered to, and common sense applied.
As for not using a solicitor, and offering that advice on this forum is totally and absolutely STUPID, really STUPID. Amelia, if you find that offensive, ???
In you last post, some of what you say is correct. This is a different country with different customs etc.
People exercising the same caution when buying in the UK, is good advice.
You are lucky with your husbands language skills, but others don´t have that so using a solicitor, in my opinion is paramount.
Your comments about Victorio, the solicitor from Campocamera are slanderous. You may have reason to state your feelings. I and my family have used him on many occasions and have ALWAYS found him to be exemplary in his advice, guidance and price.
I see that you joined the forum on 18th September, welcome and I look forward to reading more posts from you.

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Re: New to Forum

Post by Imagemaker on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:52 pm

I would NEVER buy a house or (especially) a cave without a solicitor.

IMHO and following my own experience, Victorio is above reproach.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Dave on Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:00 pm

....and a very foolish move, to make comments like that about a solicitor on a public forum.
100% satisfaction with Victorio's services from me.

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Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way when you judge him, you will be a mile away, and have his shoes...


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Re: New to Forum

Post by cueva ventosa on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:11 pm

We would always recommend him 100% he has been more than helpful and stopped us from what could have been a bad move. A great guy to deal with always friendly and willing to take to to explain things we were unsure about - we'd use him everytime.

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Re: New to Forum

Post by sierra_satellites on Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:14 am

Well said Ken !!

The people that have ripped me off to date here, have all been people I have known and trusted. I knew someone would step in with some common sense.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by pebbles on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:00 am

The people that have ripped me off to date here, have all been people I have known and trusted

Yes the same here for us

We too have used Victorio and wouldnt hesitate to use him again and would recommend him to anyone who asked


Last edited by pebbles on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New to Forum

Post by LUHG on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:24 am

Hi i agree with Ken. I have used Vittorio myself and found him to be very gracious and totally above board. Certainly honest and not expensive. However solicitors do make mistakes. I had one in the UK that cost me a lot of money through ineptitude and rectified it by going back to him. So i suggest if perhaps Amelie has a personal problem with Vittorio then perhaps she is better going to him directly rather than attacking him on an open forum!

As for not using a solicitor. Well to my mind it's stupid in the extreme! I don't care how good your Spanish is, you will never know all the legalities without being a solicitor.....and trust me there are a few out here....the Spanish love their paperwork Smile

To sum it up. Make sure your cave is the one that you want. Go and see it at different times of the day. As it might be quiet one minute and noisy and smelly the next. Make sure the escritura is in order. Make sure it's free of debt. Also if it has water and electricity, make sure they are connected....or you could be spending a LOT of money getting them connected. Most of all don't leave your brains at the airport!
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Re: New to Forum

Post by Dave on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:39 am

I always find it strange, when a new member who is unknown to anybody, comes onto a forum, makes some very strong statements (right or wrong) and then disapears scratch











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My bigest fear is that when I die the wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.

Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way when you judge him, you will be a mile away, and have his shoes...


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Re: New to Forum

Post by gilly on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:52 am

Hear,hear Dave!! Must say it all seems VERY strange Shocked
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Re: New to Forum

Post by sierra_satellites on Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:50 pm

Very sus, they should not be taken seriously by anyone if they do not back up their opinions or contribute further.
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Re: New to Forum

Post by gtclubman on Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:38 pm

I agree with Ken and his comments concerning Victorio, I have used hm for various legal things and have always found him very profesional, friendly and with reasonable charges. I would not hesitate to recommend Victorrio to assist any one when buying or selling a property in Spain.
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